Episode 28
Brand Strategy: Why Every Business Needs One
If you think brand strategy is just for big companies with big budgets, this episode is going to change your mind — because I used to think exactly the same thing.
For over two decades I ran my retail consultancy doing everything myself, building a reputation on referrals and results. And I genuinely believed that brand work was indulgent, expensive, and frankly unnecessary. Then I met Dani Nodwell.
In this episode I'm joined by Dani, creative strategist and one of my associate consultants at The Retail Champion, to talk about what brand strategy actually is, why it matters far more than a logo refresh, and what a clear brand foundation can do for the quality of work you attract, the confidence you project, and the team around you.
This is a conversation for any business owner — retail, hospitality, independent, or growing — who has ever thought: I know what I do, surely that's enough.
Spoiler: it isn't. But the good news is, what you need is probably already there. You just need to uncover it.
WHAT WE COVER
- Why brand strategy isn't about a logo — it's about meaning
- Dani's four-pillar methodology: Ambition, Audience, Advantage, Authenticity
- The difference between a brand refresh and a full strategic pivot
- Why most businesses need realignment, not reinvention
- What brand strategy looks like on a day-to-day basis
- Three practical things you can do this week to get started
- Why trust can't be claimed — it has to be earned
KEY QUOTE
"A product fixes something, but a brand makes you feel really understood." — Dani Nodwell
TIMESTAMPS
[00:00:00]Clare on why she resisted brand strategy for 23 years
[00:02:35]Introducing Dani Nodwell
[00:02:44]How Dani diagnoses a brand: audience vs. reality
[00:04:35]The four-stage methodology explained: Ambition, Audience, Advantage, Authenticity
[00:08:55]Strategy vs. creativity — why you need both
[00:11:16]When to pivot vs. when to evolve
[00:12:12]Brand strategy on the day-to-day
[00:15:02]Three practical things to do this week
[00:18:04]Trust as retail gold — and why you can't just claim it
[00:20:26]Dani's closing thoughts: brand strategy is not a luxury
GUEST
Dani Nodwell is a creative strategist and associate consultant at The Retail Champion. She works with businesses of all sizes to uncover and articulate their brand foundation — helping them attract the right customers, lead with confidence, and stop competing on price.
LINKS & RESOURCES
- Find out more about working with The Retail Champion: retailchampion.co.uk
- Enquire about brand strategy support: contact@retailchampion.co.uk
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Transcript
[CLARE] If you thought brand strategy was something that was just for the
Speaker:[CLARE] big boys or the big budgets, wake up and smell the coffee.
Speaker:[CLARE] This is essential for any business, and I'm going to be talking
Speaker:[CLARE] to somebody today who helped mine. Today's episode is for anyone running
Speaker:[CLARE] a business thinking, I've been doing this a long time,
Speaker:[CLARE] I know what I'm about, surely I don't need a brand strategy.
Speaker:[CLARE] And the thing is, that was me. Because for over 2 decades
Speaker:[CLARE] I've been working in my own business in retail consultancy.
Speaker:[CLARE] I've built the business and a reputation and a client base,
Speaker:[CLARE] and I've done it all by myself. And I think that's the
Speaker:[CLARE] same as a lot of small business owners.
Speaker:[CLARE] I just assumed brand work was something that big companies did.
Speaker:[CLARE] It was sort of, you know, indulgent, excessive,
Speaker:[CLARE] expensive, and maybe unnecessary. When yo…
Speaker:[CLARE] And you know what? Turns out I was wrong.
Speaker:[DANI] Yeah, Retail Reckoning, Retail Reckoning.
Speaker:[CLARE] No space for dusty shelves, 'cause Retail Reckoning owns the floor.
Speaker:[CLARE] I'm going to set the scene now for everybody.
Speaker:[CLARE] I first worked with a lady called Dani Nodwell.
Speaker:[CLARE] And it was about helping my clients. It was about helping them.
Speaker:[CLARE] But actually, I discovered she could help me too.
Speaker:[CLARE] My business, my whole B2B business. And I was perhaps a little
Speaker:[CLARE] skeptical at first.
Speaker:[CLARE] I thought, I know what I stand for.
Speaker:[CLARE] I know what my customers want. I can list what I do
Speaker:[CLARE] in my sleep. How much value is there really digging into this?
Speaker:[CLARE] But then technically getting everything t…
Speaker:[CLARE] my background, my experience was straight…
Speaker:[CLARE] me right down, which takes some doing, and she helped me ask
Speaker:[CLARE] myself some questions. Not what do you do,
Speaker:[CLARE] but why does it matter to clients? Not who do you work
Speaker:[CLARE] with? But who are you actually for? And it wasn't fluffy,
Speaker:[CLARE] but it was this sort of clarity. And so what I'd like
Speaker:[CLARE] to do is introduce Dani today to talk about this for any
Speaker:[CLARE] small business that maybe wants to take that step back.
Speaker:[CLARE] It can be quite emotional.
Speaker:[CLARE] So I'm glad you're here on this podcast today because I'd like
Speaker:[CLARE] to share what I learned from you with anyone that's listening.
Speaker:[DANI] Thanks, Clare. That was a lovely introduction.
Speaker:[CLARE] When you first come into a business, including mine,
Speaker:[CLARE] what is the first thing you look at?
Speaker:[DANI] First thing I actually do is diagnose. What that means is that
Speaker:[DANI] I look at the journey so far. So what's been built,
Speaker:[DANI] what's shifted, and what feels strong, and also what feels slightly off,
Speaker:[DANI] which can be a little bit awkward in conversation.
Speaker:[DANI] I basically look at the audience and the perception versus the reality.
Speaker:[DANI] So what does the market think you are?
Speaker:[DANI] And what are you actually trying to build?
Speaker:[DANI] And then I spend real time, as you well know,
Speaker:[DANI] Clare, with the founder or the leadership team.
Speaker:[DANI] And what I'm doing is I'm really dialing in.
Speaker:[DANI] I'm really listening for ambition, for belief, for friction,
Speaker:[DANI] and for what really genuinely matters to them,
Speaker:[DANI] because authenticity is so, so important.
Speaker:[DANI] And my belief is that, you know, brand strategy isn't just something
Speaker:[DANI] you bolt on. It really is something that you uncover and it's
Speaker:[DANI] actually already there. So, you know, the visual identity,
Speaker:[DANI] like the logos and the colors, to me it's just the outfit.
Speaker:[DANI] So it's just really important that before you choose that outfit,
Speaker:[DANI] you really need to understand what's underneath —
Speaker:[DANI] the body and more importantly, the heart and soul of the business.
Speaker:[DANI] Brands don't, for me, compete on aesthetics. They compete on meaning,
Speaker:[DANI] and meaning is what creates the connection. So this is why this
Speaker:[DANI] first part is so important.
Speaker:[CLARE] Do you know, when we worked together, I didn't understand how you
Speaker:[CLARE] could do what you did because that's not me.
Speaker:[CLARE] I'm a spreadsheet person. I'm a logistician. I'm not a creative.
Speaker:[CLARE] But you asked me questions like, what animal would you be if
Speaker:[CLARE] you could be an animal? And things like that.
Speaker:[CLARE] And it was, it was really emotional. So yeah,
Speaker:[CLARE] with that whole audit and what's happening behind the scenes,
Speaker:[CLARE] how do you get to the state where you can actually unravel
Speaker:[CLARE] it all and feed it back? Because it feels like the dark
Speaker:[CLARE] arts.
Speaker:[DANI] When we have that time together, it's a long time that we
Speaker:[DANI] sit together and it can be a real journey for you.
Speaker:[DANI] And it is, you know, it almost feels a bit like a
Speaker:[DANI] therapy session. I get real insight from you,
Speaker:[DANI] the founder, and I can really start to build some structure around
Speaker:[DANI] that meaning, which is gold for, you know,
Speaker:[DANI] a brand strategist. So once I come away from that situation and
Speaker:[DANI] the foundations are clear in my mind, I then take the business
Speaker:[DANI] through 4 of my own kind of stages —
Speaker:[DANI] a methodology that I go through. Now, first is ambition.
Speaker:[DANI] Now what I do is I take all the insight that I've
Speaker:[DANI] gained basically workshopping with you and spending all that time with you.
Speaker:[DANI] I really grab onto where you want to go,
Speaker:[DANI] what we're trying to build, what are our objectives.
Speaker:[DANI] That vision, that mission and strategy has to really speak to that.
Speaker:[DANI] So that first piece is really about under…
Speaker:[DANI] as a business. Now, secondly, we look into audience,
Speaker:[DANI] and for me, this is probably the most important part because this
Speaker:[DANI] is the difference between listening to pe…
Speaker:[DANI] just talking at them. So it's not just demographics,
Speaker:[DANI] it's not age brackets or income bands, it's beliefs,
Speaker:[DANI] it's frictions, it's emotional drivers. W…
Speaker:[DANI] What problem are they really solving in their life?
Speaker:[DANI] What tension are they carrying that no one is naming?
Speaker:[DANI] I think once you understand that, you then just stop creating messages
Speaker:[DANI] for people and you start creating messages that feel like they were
Speaker:[DANI] written about them. I think also this is the section where opportunity
Speaker:[DANI] really appears because sometimes there's …
Speaker:[DANI] you just haven't even intentionally claimed yet. So this is about uncovering
Speaker:[DANI] new audiences as well. But ultimately tha…
Speaker:[DANI] it's about resonance. And when people feel understood,
Speaker:[DANI] they really lean in.
Speaker:[DANI] Now, thirdly, the third pillar is advantage. And I won't go too
Speaker:[DANI] much into this, but this is where we find our white space,
Speaker:[DANI] our positioning — how do we differentiate between better or cheaper?
Speaker:[DANI] Because if you don't define deeper value, you default to price,
Speaker:[DANI] and price is transactional and not emotional. So you're not really going
Speaker:[DANI] to hook them in long-term. And then finally,
Speaker:[DANI] authenticity, which for me is the fun bit.
Speaker:[DANI] Clare, I love this part because this is the character of the
Speaker:[DANI] brand. This is where we start to create something —
Speaker:[DANI] how it behaves, how it speaks, what it stands for.
Speaker:[DANI] And this is where we create a story that really grabs attention
Speaker:[DANI] because it feels true. And for me as well,
Speaker:[DANI] this is what I call authenticity, because this is where authenticity lives.
Speaker:[DANI] And I feel like it's really important that whatever we create is
Speaker:[DANI] really authentic. And when that's clear, when all of those stages —
Speaker:[DANI] ambition, audience, advantage, and authenticity — are clear and they align,
Speaker:[DANI] customers don't just buy from you. They really feel like they belong
Speaker:[DANI] with you. And I think these four pillars are key to making
Speaker:[DANI] sure that we've got something really full of substance.
Speaker:[CLARE] Awesome advice. I hadn't realized that I …
Speaker:[CLARE] clients, people that might not pay on time,
Speaker:[CLARE] might waste my time, and so on. And going through this process,
Speaker:[CLARE] when your story's clear and you look more confident,
Speaker:[CLARE] more credible, more established, you get the right leads and you don't
Speaker:[CLARE] get the time wasters, and you get the people that you actually
Speaker:[CLARE] want to work with. And I think that's why this has meant
Speaker:[CLARE] the world. I mean, we have been through a massive journey and
Speaker:[CLARE] it's been nearly a year now. And everything you did,
Speaker:[CLARE] we passed to a graphic designer who completely understood how to interpret
Speaker:[CLARE] your explanation of what we were about into an entirely new visual
Speaker:[CLARE] identity. This podcast wouldn't exist without all of that.
Speaker:[CLARE] So I think that's really important to consider —
Speaker:[CLARE] it was a monumental shift and it is a massive leap of
Speaker:[CLARE] faith as well. But this is the difference.
Speaker:[CLARE] You've got strategy versus creativity, an…
Speaker:[CLARE] one, but surely it's about both.
Speaker:[DANI] Well, as you know, Clare, I call myself a creative strategist because
Speaker:[DANI] I really believe that they go hand in hand,
Speaker:[DANI] because people think they have to choose between creativity and strategy.
Speaker:[DANI] And I think it's because creativity is visible and strategy is invisible.
Speaker:[DANI] And I think that's what it comes down to.
Speaker:[DANI] Creativity is visual — you can see it,
Speaker:[DANI] but you can feel strategy. I'd say creativity is the campaign,
Speaker:[DANI] the photo shoot, the rebrand.
Speaker:[DANI] It's really exciting. It's lovely to look at.
Speaker:[DANI] Whereas strategy is the quieter, kind of more deliberate —
Speaker:[DANI] I guess, older brother, if you like. So people assume it's structure
Speaker:[DANI] versus imagination, but strategy really does give the creative direction.
Speaker:[DANI] Without it, creativity might look good, b…
Speaker:[DANI] And strategy also gives you the guardrails. It's not supposed to limit
Speaker:[DANI] the creativity, but to focus it. And without those guardrails,
Speaker:[DANI] you're going to just drift. You can chase trends and create things
Speaker:[DANI] that look impressive, but don't actually strengthen the brand.
Speaker:[DANI] And when creativity is anchored in a clear story and a relatable
Speaker:[DANI] truth, that's when it really connects. Let's look at a brand like
Speaker:[DANI] Rituals, for example. They feel intention…
Speaker:[DANI] you're buying into a mood, a ritual, something that reflects you.
Speaker:[DANI] When you go into their shop, you really step into their world.
Speaker:[DANI] So my opinion is that a product fixes something,
Speaker:[DANI] but a brand makes you feel really understood.
Speaker:[DANI] And for me, that's the difference.
Speaker:[CLARE] You are just in such a different world than me,
Speaker:[CLARE] because I'd just be looking at a spreadsheet and saying,
Speaker:[CLARE] does it make enough margin or not? But that's why we need
Speaker:[CLARE] to work together and why we do work together with clients,
Speaker:[CLARE] because you have to have the yin and the yang.
Speaker:[CLARE] If a brand or a business listening today wants to know what
Speaker:[CLARE] to do, there's a difference between what I did a couple of
Speaker:[CLARE] years ago when I updated and refreshed my visual identity versus what
Speaker:[CLARE] we did last year, which was I completely rewrote the book.
Speaker:[CLARE] How does a business know when it needs to pivot versus when
Speaker:[CLARE] it needs to evolve?
Speaker:[DANI] Well, I think that takes us back to the ambition,
Speaker:[DANI] audience, and advantage that I spoke about earlier.
Speaker:[DANI] Has your direction shifted? Has your audience changed?
Speaker:[DANI] Are there new market signals that you really need to be aware
Speaker:[DANI] of? Are you still aligned with what you believed when you first
Speaker:[DANI] set up? You really have to ask yourself these questions.
Speaker:[DANI] And most businesses actually don't need r…
Speaker:[DANI] Often brands and businesses outgrow their…
Speaker:[DANI] And so if the deeper value still holds within their market,
Speaker:[DANI] it's refinement. If the foundation no longer fits the market,
Speaker:[DANI] then your values or growth goals might have changed and then it's
Speaker:[DANI] pivot time. Clarity, I think, fixes more than change sometimes.
Speaker:[DANI] I think you have to be aware of when to pivot and
Speaker:[DANI] when to just give it that bit more clarity.
Speaker:[CLARE] What does brand mean on the day-to-day basis?
Speaker:[DANI] It gives the direction, and also the alignment and the consistency.
Speaker:[DANI] And I think that when you have all of those things,
Speaker:[DANI] it really gives confidence to you as a team,
Speaker:[DANI] but also your customer. For instance, whe…
Speaker:[DANI] everything just feels much more intention…
Speaker:[DANI] You're not just thinking of the next thing to post or put
Speaker:[DANI] out there. It's resonant. It really means something to your target audience.
Speaker:[DANI] And your marketing isn't just reacting — so you're not just
Speaker:[DANI] chucking ideas at the wall hoping they'll stick,
Speaker:[DANI] chucking money down the drain, frankly. There's consistency,
Speaker:[DANI] there's alignment. You know what you're saying, who you're saying it to,
Speaker:[DANI] and you know why you're saying it. So it doesn't just extend
Speaker:[DANI] out externally. It also really matters in…
Speaker:[DANI] recruit — because you know who fits when you're interviewing —
Speaker:[DANI] it shapes how you lead because your values guide decisions.
Speaker:[DANI] So brand isn't just the external expression. It really is the internal
Speaker:[DANI] compass. And when that compass is clear, creativity becomes so much easier.
Speaker:[DANI] And your marketing becomes so much more effective.
Speaker:[DANI] It really is a day-to-day thing that you have to live and
Speaker:[DANI] breathe and not take your eye off the ball,
Speaker:[DANI] really.
Speaker:[CLARE] Well, speaking from experience, I can say that since the work I
Speaker:[CLARE] did with you and the work you've done with my clients has
Speaker:[CLARE] always been well received. Because for those who don't know,
Speaker:[CLARE] Dani is one of my associate consultants and works with a number
Speaker:[CLARE] of my clients when they need this kind of support.
Speaker:[CLARE] The work you did with me helped Zoe,
Speaker:[CLARE] who's the graphic designer, to immediately understand how we should look,
Speaker:[CLARE] how we should feel. But it's also helped Steph,
Speaker:[CLARE] who does all my content, SEO, and e-commerce writing.
Speaker:[CLARE] She understood how to explain what we were about.
Speaker:[CLARE] I can honestly say I get more quality leads since we did
Speaker:[CLARE] this work together than I did before. And I'm a complete convert.
Speaker:[CLARE] I think many people could be skeptical, but I would hope that
Speaker:[CLARE] my own personal case study gives some people confidence to maybe give
Speaker:[CLARE] it a go, because this was the lightbulb moment.
Speaker:[CLARE] I thought brand was just a logo and a bit of marketing.
Speaker:[CLARE] It's everything. It's everything you say and everything you do.
Speaker:[CLARE] In terms of some practical takeaways, if someone's listening to this,
Speaker:[CLARE] what are perhaps 2 or 3 things they could do this week
Speaker:[CLARE] to really centre back in on what they stand for,
Speaker:[CLARE] who they want to work with, and why they do what they
Speaker:[CLARE] do?
Speaker:[DANI] Okay. Just 3 simple things you could start with.
Speaker:[DANI] First, ask yourself: what do we actually want to be known for?
Speaker:[DANI] Not what you do, not your services, but why you do it.
Speaker:[DANI] What's the impact that you really want to make?
Speaker:[DANI] I found that a really interesting question when I put that to
Speaker:[DANI] you, Clare, in our workshop. It's amazing what that kind of question
Speaker:[DANI] can uncover, and it just makes it so much deeper and much
Speaker:[DANI] more purposeful. Not just in business, but on the world.
Speaker:[DANI] And it usually relates and goes hand in hand.
Speaker:[DANI] What do you want people to say about you when you're not
Speaker:[DANI] in the room? If you can answer that clearly,
Speaker:[DANI] that's a sign there's work to do. So second,
Speaker:[DANI] look at your last 5 pieces of marketing.
Speaker:[DANI] Look at your website, look at your social.
Speaker:[DANI] Do they feel connected? Do they build on something?
Speaker:[DANI] And do they tell a story? Do they give your customers any
Speaker:[DANI] emotional value, or are they just activity or product and sales-led?
Speaker:[DANI] I've seen lots of socials recently from clients that are wondering why
Speaker:[DANI] they're not getting engagement. Every sin…
Speaker:[DANI] just sales-led, and that's not giving any real value.
Speaker:[DANI] So if it feels reactive rather than intentional or continuously product-led,
Speaker:[DANI] you're probably missing strategic directi…
Speaker:[DANI] The third thing I'd ask you: if someone removed your logo from
Speaker:[DANI] your website or your social posts, would people still know it was
Speaker:[DANI] you? Do you have that tone there? Do you have that belief?
Speaker:[DANI] Do you have that energy? Does it reflect who you are and
Speaker:[DANI] where you want to be, and does it speak to your customer?
Speaker:[DANI] And if the answer is no, you're probably operating at surface level,
Speaker:[DANI] and we really want to go deeper. That's the clue.
Speaker:[DANI] They're my 3 tips, just simple tips to start with to get
Speaker:[DANI] you thinking.
Speaker:[CLARE] It sounds quite like psychological in many respects because it's emotional.
Speaker:[DANI] It is emotional, and I think that's at the crux of what
Speaker:[DANI] I do. And I think that's what a lot of brands actually
Speaker:[DANI] miss out there — they think it's about product and it's very
Speaker:[DANI] transactional. You think they have to sell their products and all their
Speaker:[DANI] features, but actually what people are looking for,
Speaker:[DANI] when they buy your product, they expect a certain amount of things.
Speaker:[DANI] They expect the quality to be there. They expect it to work.
Speaker:[DANI] That's what they're buying it for. But actually what we need to
Speaker:[DANI] do is go deeper and hit the subconscious,
Speaker:[DANI] so they don't know what they're getting in addition to that product.
Speaker:[DANI] They're stepping into a brand world.
Speaker:[DANI] We've got to tap into their deeper subconscious,
Speaker:[DANI] their deeper emotional frictions. It's all about relatable truths.
Speaker:[DANI] If we can create content that hits the relatable truth and stops
Speaker:[DANI] that friction or solves that problem, the…
Speaker:[CLARE] I've talked a lot about trust in many other podcasts,
Speaker:[CLARE] and I think that's very much relatable to this topic —
Speaker:[CLARE] that when a brand identifies with its audience,
Speaker:[CLARE] there becomes a relationship of trust. And that is,
Speaker:[CLARE] that's retail gold.
Speaker:[DANI] It is retail gold, but trust — you can't just say that
Speaker:[DANI] you're trusted. This is the thing. As one of the values,
Speaker:[DANI] if you say we're trusted, you don't just say you are trusted,
Speaker:[DANI] you have to earn trust. And so to earn trust,
Speaker:[DANI] you have to make that connection. You have to listen to your
Speaker:[DANI] audience. You have to listen to your customer and not talk at
Speaker:[DANI] them. That's why the audience pillar of my methodology is so important.
Speaker:[DANI] It's not just about demographics, it's about their mindset.
Speaker:[DANI] It's about the problems that you need to solve in their life
Speaker:[DANI] and digging deeper into their beliefs and their interests.
Speaker:[DANI] And you have to dig deep to understand who you're talking to
Speaker:[DANI] and how you can solve their problem. Otherwise,
Speaker:[DANI] you're just not going to make that connection.
Speaker:[CLARE] And at the end of the day, as they say,
Speaker:[CLARE] people buy from people. Even if the person is just words on
Speaker:[CLARE] a screen, somebody wrote them. I think to wrap up today,
Speaker:[CLARE] if there's anybody listening to this thinking, this sounds like me,
Speaker:[CLARE] I probably need to do something — that is the point.
Speaker:[CLARE] And if you're a small business owner who's been trying to do
Speaker:[CLARE] it all by yourself for years, then brand strategy doesn't need to
Speaker:[CLARE] be scary, because I did it after 23 years.
Speaker:[CLARE] But it's about becoming something that you are,
Speaker:[CLARE] but you don't necessarily define. And it's about articulating what's there —
Speaker:[CLARE] clear, confident — and also honing in on the people that you
Speaker:[CLARE] want to work with, whether they be your suppliers,
Speaker:[CLARE] the people that you work with as a team,
Speaker:[CLARE] or the customers.
Speaker:[CLARE] I once believed what you did was fluffy,
Speaker:[CLARE] and now I think it's foundational. And to anyone else listening,
Speaker:[CLARE] don't just say, oh, I've got a really sexy logo.
Speaker:[CLARE] You have to interrogate your story and know who you are,
Speaker:[CLARE] because when that's clear, everything else gets easier.
Speaker:[CLARE] Have you got any final wrap-up words you'd like to share?
Speaker:[DANI] Echoing what you said, Clare — having a brand strategy is definitely
Speaker:[DANI] not a luxury. It's an absolute must-have that will set the direction
Speaker:[DANI] for your whole entire marketing team and your external customer base.
Speaker:[DANI] And without it, you're not going to get any long-term commitment from
Speaker:[DANI] your customers. You're just going to be based on price and be
Speaker:[DANI] fighting for discounts. It's that race to the bottom situation.
Speaker:[DANI] Definitely invest in brand strategy because it's more of a question of
Speaker:[DANI] whether you can afford not to. When ambition is clear,
Speaker:[DANI] when you truly understand your audience, …
Speaker:[DANI] beyond price, when your authenticity is lived and not performed,
Speaker:[DANI] something really shifts. You stop chasing…
Speaker:[DANI] noise.
Speaker:[DANI] You stop discounting to be chosen, which is really important because people
Speaker:[DANI] don't buy brands that shout the loudest. They actually buy brands that
Speaker:[DANI] feel like them. And when someone feels seen,
Speaker:[DANI] understood, and aligned, they don't just purchase, they commit.
Speaker:[DANI] And that is what is so brilliant about brand strategy.
Speaker:[CLARE] And I'd also like to say this podcast wouldn't exist if it
Speaker:[CLARE] wasn't for you. So, Dani, thank you so much.
Speaker:[CLARE] I've been joined by Dani Nodwell, and this has been Retail Reckoning.
Speaker:[CLARE] I'm Clare Bailey, the Retail Champion, and thank you for listening.
